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Post by oldtimer1 on May 23, 2011 22:16:52 GMT -5
Re: Peacock's post... same old stuff. If the team has a poor year next season he will once again question JD's coaching ability. If we have a good year he again disappear for a while. Still hasn't congratulated our team and coach on their accomplishments this past season. Same old stuff...best to ignore
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Post by eport on May 24, 2011 0:02:29 GMT -5
Check out the article by JC/Hoops, (NJO SPC BLOG) on Dunne's new multi year contract and teams current recruiting status. According to the article we have four available scholarships for next year. Nothing really new in the article, but it's nice to be in the news. No mention of Costner.
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Post by eport on May 24, 2011 1:09:59 GMT -5
Good big men are always at a premium, even in the NBA, never mind the MAAC. There's just less of them to go around. Regarding Belin.......he did start to utilize his quick first step and take it to the basket more often, as advised by Dunne. The weird thing is that even his ill advised 3 pointers started to go in the basket as well as his foul shots......truly amazing. The whole team played well in the MAAC Tournament but Belin was clearly the difference maker.
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Post by oldtimer1 on May 24, 2011 8:00:23 GMT -5
eport, just read the NJO Blog...an extremely accurate and well written piece. No new information but was able to put everything in perspective and gave an accurate analysis of next years situation.
I am a little puzzled about this second juco. Wonder if I misintrepreted the direct comment made to me about two signees. Time will tell.
Re: Tucker and Ferguson. Difficult to evaluate based on limited observation. Like jajk I liked Ferguson's video but the question always thelevel was he playing against. Was not all that impressive (read dominant player) in the pickup game I observed but, then again, new guys on the block often try to blend in, at first, rather then appear selfish.
Saw Tucker last year on two occassions...same thing. Just tried to blend in and with Ryan, Belin, Conely and Hill on the floor he was content to stay outside. My only opinion, at this point, is that if eligible he is not an impact player. Great kid but who knows how he has developed over the past year.
Right now my questions are:
1) Prescott is a very good player. How good he will be in competition is the question.
2) Same for Fulton. My one hope for both of them is that they are comfortable in playing on a big stage.
3) Hill and Blaise. More talent in boith of them than displayed to date. In preseason last year Blaise held his own with Nick, Wes, Steve and Yuvon. Has some skills that the others don't possess. However, a poor start to the season relegated him to the bench. Can handle, play defense, drive and dish. Problem area is his outside shot. Decent pull up but nothing more. Jack Hill...already given my opinion. Shame to see such potential wasted.
4) Steve looks great...can do it all and it's hard to buy his size and length (very long arms) at his position. Will be playing in the Conn. Summer Leagues against pretty good competition.
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Post by peacockblue on May 24, 2011 8:06:51 GMT -5
Trying not to get into the usual back and forth on this board, but I think Peacock makes a fair point that we were a 4th place team last year. We had a very magical run and clicked at just the right time, but looking forward to this year let's remember that we never finished higher than 4th with the "big three" and Belin. That's not an attempt to take away the accomplishments of last year, just an important fact when look forward to this year.
IMO it's also unfair to make the argument that team's got "lucky" by landing players such as Rossiter, Glover, Johnson, Thompson, etc. There's always luck involved and much uncertainty in recruiting but we can't just dismiss these players because they weren't heavily recruited or had other issues- and in the case of Glover, SPC has let in players with very questionable academic backgrounds as well so we can't make it out like SPC has such a superior standard of admission because they don't. He didn't go to St.Francis because the coach left, not because of admissions.
Very hit or miss would be my analysis of these "bigs." JD is batting .500 with these recruits. Pretty good average for big men at the MAAC level. Belin, Bacon, and Conley all were major contributors to a championship team. It doesn't matter how they got here, they were here and contributed. The problem would be that we have got virtually nothing out of the other three. Shumate was a complete bust. Costner much of the same (unfortunately due to injury in large part). Hill, regardless of how he has looked during pick up games in May, has given us very little over the last three years.
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Post by oldtimer1 on May 24, 2011 8:57:03 GMT -5
Calling us a 4th place team last year while statistically correct is overlooking the fact that we were a 2nd place team only two weeks prior. Only a ridiculous call in the Rider game made us a 4th place team. Truth is we were always in the mix 2 through 4 all season. So to say that we were a 4th place team and imply that we got lucky (read "magical run") is also inaccurate. We were a top tier team that put it all together at the right time. That is the only accurate statement to be made. JD's coaching, especially game planning and rotation of players, unless anyone is blind, was a major factor.
Regarding being "lucky" in recruiting, I disagree.. Originally pointed out several weeks ago that recruiting is always a crap shoot, especially on this level. Some players develop others do not. Rossiter is quite the case in point. Any MAAC team would have been happy to recruit him ( I know personally that we were interested ) but he turned out to be a much, much better player than anyone could have imagined, including the Siena staff. If we don't want to use the word luck then substitute fortunate. But that's what recruiting is all about, a little bit of everything...scouting, luck AND the ability to get a targeted recruit to choose your school. The latter is the problem at SPC and has always been with few exceptions.
The point that John Gault made that some here do not understand is that recruiting at SPC is very difficult. Not impossible but very difficult compared to our fellow MAAC schools. Not an excuse but a fact. This staff has done, in my opinion a great job. Go to other teams and look at "complete busts". Siena is loaded with them this year. Let's stop moaning, analysizing and complaining about our recruiting.
peacockblue..you misinterpret or mistate. Never commented about how Jack Hill looked "during pick up games in May". In fact, my only comment was that he missed an easy layup and Nick scolded him. I only posted what everyone on the team knows i.e. that Jack Hill has much, much more talent than he has shown. Jack has contributed zero over the past few years and everyone knows it, not the least Jack. I posted that Jack is working his ass off and ended my post hoping that he can contribute...nothing more.
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Post by loyal on May 24, 2011 9:17:44 GMT -5
I do think it was more of a "magical run" vs. being us being a solid, legitimate threat to win the Title. Objectively, SPC was +7 vs. Fairfield and +9 vs. Iona....."outsider" odds, to be sure. Mathematically, prior to the Tourney starting, SPC had a 4% chance to win it all. (Finally putting my financial training to good use!) :>) I still can't believe it happened, but am very, very happy. Our guys came out confident in MAAC Tourney(!), shot FT's 20% better than in the regular season (!), Belin drained threes like crazy(!) and Samuels and Raymond shut down two of the best PG's in the league(!).
I know it's tough to recruit to SPC, but I did hope we might get a temporary bump from the MAAC Title and land one "above average" targeted player. It's the first time in 16 years SPC has had that type of TEAM exposure. So far.........not yet. Of course, I hoped this time last year that SPC could have landed Brandon Walters from SHU, so what do I know?
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Post by oldtimer1 on May 24, 2011 9:47:49 GMT -5
Loyal re: recruiting, I agree. We have some advantages, this year, as you point out. Exposure from last year's NCAA bid, some decent players already in house and a definite need. In recruiting, players like to play and if you can show them how and where they COULD fit in it's an advantage. Didn't Ferguson state that he wanted to go to as place where he could play? Same with Belin. Another selling point for JD is that he goes deeper into his bench than most coaches....read, another opportunity to play.
Balance this all out against whatever perception potentials have of our Campus. We could argue this all day long. We have many positives not the least is NYC. Hopefully the new Student Center (which will be state of the art) will help. However, the reality of 50 plus years is that we are not a destination that a player dreams of attending.
So I'm mixed on the subject. On one hand, I don't feel recruiting for SPC (any sport) is such as detriment that we can't catch "lighting in a bottle." but on the other hand reality is reality. As JD hopefully continues to build the reputation of this Program the players will come. That is why this year IMO is somewhat crucial. Need to prove that we are top tier competitive and not a one year wonder.
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Post by peacockblue on May 24, 2011 9:50:23 GMT -5
Again, not taking anything away from JD's coaching or the players. Simply stating that we were not the best team in the MAAC from November- February. We were blown out twice during the regular season by Iona and once by Fairfield, so at best we were a 3rd place team. We were the best team in March for three days when we needed to be- never said we got lucky, even if that's how you read it. "Magical run" meant we played better than we had played in a three game stretch against "better" opponents in the four years that these players were here- Beating Fairfield on their home court and Iona in the final were arguably the two best teams JD has beat in his tenure and certainly the two best MAAC teams he has beat. We were not lucky because the talent was there. Magical because we finally put it together at just the right time.
While I'm not fortunate enough to see him in practice and pickup games, I think Hill's talent is much like that of Vernon Gholston (to use another sport as an analogy)- he has all the physical tools (height, vertical leap, athleticism, etc.) but his skills just do not translate into actual game action. I would think (and hope) that Jack has been "working his ass off" over the last three years but it has not translated into anything. I think one area where we agree is that Hill would have been much better off if he had red-shirted but he was not able to because of Costner's ability. He will contribute because of necessity, but I still don't expect much out of him.
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Post by oldtimer1 on May 24, 2011 10:11:17 GMT -5
peacockblue...not one thing to disagree with in your post. Original problem was probably semantics. Your point on the inability to redshirt Hill is right on target. He has the tools but not the confidence...everyone knows it. Could be a X factor but, like you, I'll wait and see.
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Post by JohnGalt on May 24, 2011 21:48:00 GMT -5
Not sure why you have such difficulty accepting what is the obvious to most. The MAAC attracts few quality big men. I have already mentioned the case with Glover. Hell, even the Administration at St. Francis pulled the offer when his qualifications became known. If you are speaking of Johnson of FF; he was not highly recruited and only became a factor beginning in his Jr. year. Thompson of Rider was only 6'5" out of high school and thus stirred little interest. We came up short on Abif. The operative words, even as you note, a "higher level" school. He also expressed the desire to go away to school which, in his world, qualified as Philadelphia. We just won a title with three front men, two of which were recruited by Dunne, and the third developed by him. John nurtured a group that contained many weaknesses, utilized best their strengths, and schooled these over achievers into learning a very effective, team oriented, style of play. Give credit where it is due and try accepting some humble pie while you're at it. Always been amazed by your duplicity. You have stated many times about your questions of John's recruiting, and now pretend to defend them. However I think you try to promote yourself with distortions and falsehoods. The issue is serviceable big man, not necessarily quality. I put Ferguson in that category. You seem to feel he is worse than that. We still came in 4th in the regular season but did you miss that. We were competitive, won the MAAC tourney and everybody was happy, but it still doesn't alter the facts of what we were. And no where are we calling him a bad coach, that is just your implication, just one who has problems recruiting a the 6'6" level and higher. In fact almost to a man, you have criticized every on of that height that gets mentioned. Few may pick up on that but you haven't had a kind word for any potential recruit at that height. Good recruiters snag a couple away from those "higher level" schools or do you think they shouldn't or can't. One questions your motives in commenting on Glover. Where did you get your info that St Francis pulled their offer. Was it not because John Nash left the program and he was behind Glover going there. One starts to think you invent your premises. In fact you bring up academics but fail to acknowledge the SPC approach. We have now had four players enter school as non qualifiers before they could become eligible. Somehow bitching about Glover academics seems self serving to me. Just review the players at 6'6' or better we have gotten over the past six recruiting seasons. Bacon- Came to us after DE pulled offer. Costner- first one for Dunne Shumate- took up two years of scholarships Hill- sent to us by Regis Conley- good find but academic concern Belin- JUCO and was a commit before season ended Ferguson JUCO late pick up Now six recruiting seasons with few players of height and begs some issues on either his approach or targets. Still working hard I see, to avoid given full credit to what John has accomplished. Guess he didn't do such a good job, finishing 4th during the regular season. Wonder how many will criticize McCarthy of the Packers for not finishing first in his conference. Wasn't development of his players what you considered the best measure of his coaching? Guess also you saw no improvement over the season. Now it is big men that is his achiles, even though I clearly showed that other's have not recruited a highly regarded big out of high school. We are last in expenditures for athletics, less than half of what the league's top schools spend. Yet that, along with facilities, is nothing you see as obstacles to the job he is asked to perform. Now, because I have been critical of a few of his recruiting choices, you suddenly argue that I am not allowed to question some. First, one must recognize that there are few we can begin to draw from. Our pool level is not from the top. Abif was chased by a number of our equals. Only an offer from a higher level league kept any of the rest from signiing. The Ferguson signing was not an attack on John, but merely an expression of my disappointment that we could not have done better. Your selective recall probably would include my criticism of John for signing Burke. My objection, which I have clearly stated, was that, with only one to give at the time, why would we go early on him rather than wait for the recruiting season to unfold. I also argued that he was too much similar to what we had and, based on my information would not get or have an opportunity to contribute for two years. Not a big, but how about the staff getting on top of Fulton before his talents became better known? Don't think I offered anything but kudos for that signing. The Glover-St. Francis subject is also one that shows your ignorance. While the coaching change brought the obvious result, it was the aggressive push by Nash and his clash with the administration, that was a large part of his resignation for what was termed, "personal reasons". Need to go now. Have to check around the league and read about all those impact bigs signed by the other's. BTW, aside from Shumate, see many defections from the program? Was also one of your criticisms when some of the Leckie holdovers left. Check around the league. Bet we are one of the most stable. Another plus for John and the respect and confidence his player's show for him.
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Post by eport on May 25, 2011 1:14:48 GMT -5
I've heard a lot of negative comments on Dunne's recruiting, but i think we need to cut him some slack. Hell, we just won the MAAC. This years recruiting isn't nearly over so ti's much
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Post by eport on May 25, 2011 2:51:36 GMT -5
I've heard a lot of negative comments about Dunne's recruiting of "bigs", but I think we need to cut him some slack. Hell, we just won the MAAC Championship with a team comprised of HIS recruits.
So far, our only "big" recruit is Ferguson. It's too early to make a judgement until we actually see him play and there's still plenty of time to recruit the next big.
I can't help but comment on recent statements concerning past and present recruits.
"Bacon came to us after DE pulled offer". So what.....who cares? Bacon could have gone to many other teams, but he came to us because Dunne was on top of the situation. Kudos to Dunne and staff.
"Costner, first one for Dunne". I don't know what that means, but he hasn't been a total bust. There's no way to predict injuries and he still may contribute.
"Shumate, took away two years of scholarships". I can't argue about this fact, but there was a reason for the recruitment of Shumate. Dunne was trying to open the closed recruiting doors at St. Patrick's due to the Boyle/Leckie feud. It was a calculated risk that Shumate would develop and if he didn't at least we opened the door at St. Patrick's.
"Hill, sent to us by Regis". Granted he hasn't done much to date, but he may be a nice surprise next year. The jury is still out on Hill.
"Conley, good find, but academic concern". Conley is doing fine academically, and has proven to be one of our better recruits with two years of eligibility left. He is capable of a break out year next season.
"Belin, JUCO and a commit before season ended". Again, so what.....who cares? He turned out to be a great recruit and was MAAC Tournament MVP.
"Ferguson, Juco late recruit". I don't get the late recruit statement. He was signed in the Spring and we can't be negative on him until we see him play in a game.
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Post by eport on May 25, 2011 3:09:39 GMT -5
No one has mentioned much about the AD doing what was right to take care of Dunne's salary. It's nice to see that we're at least coming into the 20th century, if not the 21st century. Just think what a mess our recruiting might have been if Dunne left the program. Regardless of how the recruiting turns out, at least we have some stability.
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Post by njchampion on May 25, 2011 7:55:55 GMT -5
First of all I would like to congratulate Coach Dunne, his staff and the entire team for a job well done and pulling together when it counted. I must agree with eport's posistion on the constant criticism of the staffs recruiting of Big men and players in general This team just won the MAAC and appeared in the NCAA how many teams in this conference can say they have done this in the last century. Yes they lost 4 major players to graduation however as a Coach I realize that in order to achieve such a goal it takes hard practices and a "Team" confidence. Remember it was these guys teammates that push them and each other to this championship.I have had superstars that have played for me and I have had kids that skills were questionable however with constant work,confidence building, support from staff and teammates and the will to achieve you would be surprised at what a kid can do. I think JD has found that out and if you watch his coaching style during the end of the season and the conference you will understand. Remember this is not Duke,NC,Villanova,Uconn etc. Give it time and support the players you will be rewarded. Keep in mind JD is only a 5 year Head Coach and without the stellar big name players SPC has proven to be a program on the rise. Have faith Dunne seems to be headed in the right direction. Next season team will surprise you. Remember also that some of the current player have suffered major injuries in the past and have still given it their all hopefully everyone will be healthy. Let the new big or bigs be blended into the system before the constant question on skills and ability
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