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Post by loyal on Jan 22, 2015 9:05:43 GMT -5
This offense is consistently poor in a "peak cycle" year, with two preseason all MAAC players, against very pedestrian competition. We possess our second most offensively talented roster of the past nine years (two preseason all-MAAC players), yet execute our offense like this? 60 ppg?
Our players have their shortcomings, sure, but relative to other MAAC clubs their offensive potential is far from being maximized. Frankly, this club is hard to watch. How the heck can that be?
Add in the fact that after this season, based on productivity to date, we'll have a lame duck staff needing to fill two starting positions, SG and SF....as well as add two other rotation players. These spring signing period recruits will have to be convinced to come play a style of ball very few players want to play. Landing a Morris County College (!) PG does not inspire early confidence.
It's getting perilously close to Michael Ray Richardson time for us Peacock fans. :-(
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Post by Peacock on Jan 22, 2015 10:07:40 GMT -5
Finally, to answer my "friend" coach Peacock.You questioned a coaching move. Hope it doesn't come as a surprise to you that when some teams put on a desperation press at games end most don't guard the inbound passer. Theory is 5 players defending against 4 trying to prevent that inbouds pass in order to steal the ball or create a 5 second violation. Done all the time. You have never challenged the coach. You only pretend too. Now per your answer, a strategy to lose is OK because others have done it. Giving up when you don't get the 5 second call and allowing to eat substantial seconds off a very short clock. Pay attention to the game and not your need to defend the coach. You only like losing smart.
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Post by Peacock on Jan 22, 2015 10:12:13 GMT -5
Add in the fact that after this season, based on productivity to date, we'll have a lame duck staff needing to fill two starting positions, SG and SF....as well as add two other rotation players. These spring signing period recruits will have to be convinced to come play a style of ball very few players want to play. Landing a Morris County College (!) PG does not inspire early confidence. This brings up an interesting question. Do they extend his contract to eliminate this lame duck, buy out the last year ( highly unlikely) or just chalk up the next three seasons to misfortune. Three season as any new coach will have to dig out from a much deeper hole than Dunne walked into despite prior claims.
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Post by oldtimer1 on Jan 22, 2015 10:12:17 GMT -5
Loyal...I respect you as a great Peacock fan but do you really think that we have two ALL- MAAC players? And even more stunning is the fact that you have labled our competition as "very pedestrian". And trust me, it's not the style of ball we play. You were not at the Quinny game but anyone who tells me that we did not attack the basket, especially in the 1st half wasn't watching. In the second half we were poor at that. Guess JD made a halftime speech telling the players to stop attacking the basket...come on! We had nobody even close to Hearst and again missed key foul shots when the lead was on the line.
Hate being put in the position of defending JD but some of the stuff I read here is bs and definitely not balanced. Lots of generalities with few specifics. Case in point is your post states that we are not maximizing our offensive potential. Please tell me which player on our team has such a great offensive potential. I'll repeat, tell me how wonderful our players are vs what Manhattan, Quinny and Rider put on the floor? Again, I root for our players and was supportive of players like Tyler Gaskins and last year Chris Burke when almost everyone thought and posted that they did not deserve to start...remember? So please don't label me ( you haven't ) as someone who doesn't recognize talent. Quite frankly, I did and had to argue with several posters (you included) about Chris Burke and even Tyler. Even goes back to the debates we had over Nick Leon. How quickly we forget! I had to argue the skills of those players which many did not see. Now I'm at the other side of the spectrum sort of saying our "talents" are not as great as you and others claim. Balanced? I'd like to think so.
If it sounds like I'm beating my own drum maybe I am but I'm as frustrated as you at some of the things I read. Too many coach's in the stands and not fans who root for team and coach. Think we should just shup up and root and not play amateur coach, all day long. Again to hear you label teams such as Manhattan, Rider and Quinny as "pedestrian competition" makes me wonder. As for ALL MAAC players, we have one and nobody else really close. Gaskins is good, Trevis is good, Q and Elias have potential and Hawkins shows real potential but are any of the fore mentioned close to being ALL-MAAC? No way. Potential possibly, so I guess some will take JD to task for not having these players reach their potential. Sometimes, as with my team, players do have their own responsibility to improve. Heard Q worked his ass off this Summer and I respect that. I like what Trevis brings to the but does it look like he worked on his jump shot over the Summer? If he did and had anywhere near a semblesence of an outside shot he would be ALL MAAC material, he has all the other assets. But he did not.
So,to repeat it's absolutely fair to put the bottom line blame on the Coach but it drives me crazy to read some of the statements, full of generalities and one sided finger pointing.
I expect to catch some flack on my posts but it's about time I spoke up. Thank God we begin indoor golf practice next week. Will get my mind off of this stuff. Think we should be top 3 in the MAAC but in our Team Meeting yesterday the players spoke up and challenged themselves to work very hard on their games this Spring. With regard to basketball, I'm no insider but I'm privy to more than most. I like JD's knowledge of the game, his support of his players and the willingness to take responsibility. Certainly, the privilege of posting allows anyone to say anything but it also allows me to question much of the finger pointing I read. Post but be balanced. There is a lot of blame to go around.
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Post by loyal on Jan 22, 2015 10:24:46 GMT -5
I described the schedule we have played as "pedestrian" because it is ranked as the 285th strongest in Division One, as of this AM.
I do think Marvin has the skill set to be all-MAAC. Desi has pretty good skill sets; probably a borderline case. I do think our talent is as good as the talent on Rider, Quinny, Monmouth and Canisius. Manhattan MAY be slightly better, but if so only slightly. I think 9th place in the MAAC, given the relative talent, is disappointing to all of us.
Anyway, we're all frustrated. Respect your opinions.
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Post by oldtimer1 on Jan 22, 2015 10:36:21 GMT -5
Peacock, most here know you reputation. Now you are a mind reader knowing what I think....paranoid? Aside from much of your history which some of the newer posters are not aware of I will never forget that in the 2011 Season you bad mouthed our Coach, as usual, but also blasted two of our players ( Wesley and Ryan) midway through the Season. Then when our players got healthy and the team turned it around and won the MAAC Championship you disappeared and never had the class to offer your congratulations. I've posted those facts several times because everyone needs to be reminded who you are
You have no knowledge of the game of basketball. I've gone back and forth, sometimes hot and heavy, with junctionkid but I do respect his basketball knowledge. With you not so. You merely asked a question ( with your usual implications ) as to why we did not guard the inbound passer. My answer was not nasty and had nothing to do with our coach. I just answered your question by saying that, that's a defensive play many coaches use be it John Wooden, Bobby Knight, Mike K or anyone you care to mention. In the coaching profession it's 50/50. Some guard the inbound passer others do not for the reason I stated. IT'S NOT A JOHN DUNNE ISSUE! Stop being paranoid and learn a little bit about the game before posting such unknowledgeable stuff. Guarding or not guarding the inbounds passer is a standard coaching decision.
And, by the way , we did foul immediately after the ball was inbounded...you are wrong again! Tyler Gaskins, in fact, was called for a foul on one play even before the ball was inbounded. Watch the game althougn I don't think that it would help you.
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Post by junctionkid on Jan 22, 2015 10:57:37 GMT -5
Not avoiding posting . In fact , used board just now to find out what happened last night . My oldest son and his wife were residents in the Edgewater complex which was destroyed in last night's fire . They found out about it as they were commuting home last night ; so they are okay , and the wife and I never had to worry about their personal safety . But they have lost everything including their car so just about all our thoughts and time are with trying to help them as much as we can through this very difficult time .
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Quinnipiac
Jan 22, 2015 11:15:03 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by newfan on Jan 22, 2015 11:15:03 GMT -5
I am not putting it all on JD but let's be realistic, if as a coach you don't get production, you run risk of being replaced it doesn't mean you are not good, it may just mean for whatever reason, your style, methods are not getting results anymore. Nature of the business. And yes players did work hard off season Q did and I know from asking earlier in season Trevis used the shooting gun quite a bit and often. He may not be a consistent shooter, but he can hit a bucket once in a while as can Mel. We have so called shooters who do remain reluctant to shoot, so guys who are hit or miss shooters should be expected to put up those extra shots, I don't think so. Marvin is a all around player, solid but not always " the great one", some of his decision making can be poor at times. They all make mistakes here and there. I agree with prior post recruits may not want to play the style we play. Ok so it is said we have good players, but not great. These guys were recruited for their skills, apparently they were skilled enough to draw attention from our staff, to be heavily recruited by our staff. Did our staff underestimate all these players, if so recruiting is an issue but I don't think that is the case, most of these guys were solid players who could play. Most noted in their home state. Now they come to SPU and turn into so so players. It's not all being blamed on JD but you cannot blame it all on the players either.
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Post by oldtimer1 on Jan 22, 2015 12:44:59 GMT -5
junctionkid...thoughts are with you and your family. Best of luck.
newfan...hope you are saying that when a team loses the coach needs to take responsibility but that part of the burden is also on the players. You seem to want to say that but always bring it back to the coach. Please reread my post about what JD has said, HE WANTS THE PLAYERS TO MAKE INDIVIDUAL PLAYS OFF THE SETS. Your posts continually imply that Dunne's system, which by the way is no different than any other teams is the cause. You were at the Quinny game and you cannot tell me that especially in the 1st half our players did not continually try to attack the basket...they did! We play close to the style of play everyone else plays (except Iona) pure and simple.
Yes, most of the players we recruit are solid players but you make it seem that we have recruited outstanding players and somehow they have regressed. As you say, most of our recruited players were solid high school performers but none were any better than most other team recruited. Marvin was our only difference maker in all our recruits. No, the staff did not underestimate these players. They knew that they recruited the best they could but no way any superstars. Our players have talent but they are competing against the Manhattan's, Quinnipac's and Riders of the world that have at least equal talent, probabably slightly greater. Yes we have enough to have one a few games we should have won at that is my disappointment.
When I posted that JD wants his players to make individual plays I was observing ( not JD ) that we do not have go to guys such as a Hearst.. You assessed Desi pretty well even though you were a bit harsh on him. You have also pointed out Marvin's shortcomings. Good posts and accurate but you favorite player ( and I know the relationship ) you have been pretty silent. You know I like Trevis' overall game and what he brings to the team but, be honest, he is lacking some skills ( outside offensive threat ) which prevents him IMO from being ALL'MAAC caliber. Trevis is a nice player with many assets...handles well, sees the floor great, outstanding driver to the hoop ( when he wants to ) and a much better than average rebounder for his size, many great qualities. But he lacks that outside threat potential that almost any point guard today has. He too is lacking. But that's what the staff has to work with. Boy do I wish we had a Hearst at guard! We don't
So let's not inflate our players capability. Hawkins, Q and Trevis all are very good players with upside for the future but right now they are no better than most of our opponents. Even Rider had a better set of guards in our first meeting. Let's just be balanced all around from coach to individual player. Recruiting to SP is very difficult, I should know. A St. Peter's coach will get decent recruits but rarely a superstar. . Lots of singles and doubles but rarely a home run. That's the reality that JD or our next Coach will have to deal with. Let's not be delusional Siena
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Post by figgyprez on Jan 22, 2015 12:48:19 GMT -5
I think the clock has to start ticking on this staff. We are making no progress in any direction at this point. I think the world of the way the staff runs the program from an ethical point of view. But we remain the easiest team in the league to defend. We try hard but have at best mediocre results. Long term won/lost pct is what it is. If, as OT says the staff wants individual plays, why are they so infrequent? Are the players dumb? If the coach wants something and doesn't get it, either he's got the wrong players or his voice isn't being heard. There are so many things wrong now, it's almost not fair to start. But despite the fact that I thought highly of Marvin, again last night no fta's. Why? Hester is a very special case in that he does one thing well-so when he's in we should have very definite sets where we look specifically for him- I've seen that done for one dimensional shooters plenty and if you run it efficiently it will work enough for the other team to have to adjust to it. Meanwhile it may get you 6-8 points. I don't see us doing that. If Patterson was such a tonic for Hearst, why wasn't he a stopper for Andujar?? I know this is a sports rant, but we must ask how much better off is the program now as against 9 years ago? Is the progress, if there is any acceptable and do we continue down a stable but mundane road to consistent finishes in the bottom 2/3s of the MAAC? Is this all we can expect? Maybe-maybe not.
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Post by oldtimer1 on Jan 22, 2015 13:24:33 GMT -5
figgy...I don't disagree with you bottom line conclusion but disagree with the rest of your post. For example, you queried that if Dunne wants his players to make individual plays that the players are either dumb or not listening. Think you left out one very real possiblility...they are not that capable!You almost say that when you question if we have the wrong players. My realistic response is that we get what we can get, recruiting wise. We have decent players but, except for Mavin, no game changers.
As for Chazz, I watched him very, very closely guarding Hearst, even off the ball and through picks. Hearst just made incredible shots and proved to me that hre is quite a player. Really wish you could see video tape replay and I'm sure that you would agree with me.
Regarding Hester. You know, that without knocking the kid ,I'm not enamoured with him as many are. I know that he can shoot the ball but I don't believe he's the greatest shooter since sliced bread. I make no final judgement except to say that his sample size is quite small for anyone to annoint hin yet. That said I want to see more of him. Remember the staff sees him everyday in practice and if he were that good , like Hawkins, he would see plenty of playing time. As you know, when a player gets playing time he better be able to do other things on the court. I won't label Hester yet but Hawkins is a no brainer, Hester is not.
Finally, to answer your final question. I'm a postive person. That's part of the reason my Team (emphasize my team, not me ) won the MAAC Championship last year. I know and recognize the issues of recruiting for St. Peter's. I will never admidt that the glory days are gone but like you and others I wonder what the future of sports are at St. Peter's. Just check out the records of our other teams. Pretty good and devoted coach's but with abismal records. Should tell us something about recruiting athletes to St. Peter's
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Quinnipiac
Jan 22, 2015 15:29:40 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by newfan on Jan 22, 2015 15:29:40 GMT -5
OT I am a guard person, it was what I played so I am partial to guards. And the next home game I make I am going to come introduce myself. Hoping it is the Rider game, but work comes first, but I would like to meet you. Bottom line is a turnaround has to be made asap or the season could be a wrap. Im hoping it can happen. We don't gave a go to guy or even close, a go to guy can usually make it happen one way or another, even through adversity, we don't have one. But as was shown especially in the Rutgers game, we have a cast of role players who can get it done, that just has not happened again. I hope it will happen again and again soon. Moving forward, gon sit back and watch. All kinds of opinions have been put out here,many with valid points. Will just have to play out on court
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Post by oldtimer1 on Jan 22, 2015 15:36:10 GMT -5
Sounds good newfan. After all we all root for the same result.
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Post by spcfan on Jan 22, 2015 19:39:44 GMT -5
Watched the game on Peacock Network video stream. As usual with SPU the web site didn't show the game available though the pre game notes did. Video started just after the tip.As for MAAC TV the video didn't start until the second half. Having watched a number of road games many in the MAAC our school really comes off as mickey mouse in the execution of the product. I have to blame that on the administration and the A.D.
I know he works under a no budget situation but at some point the buck must stop somewhere.Athletics are a window into the institution and it's these type of things which have to come from the SPU side as no other MAAC teams have these problems of presentation and execution of the broadcasts that make us look completely second rate.
As to the game we did attack the basket in the first half but Desi and Marvin were completely invisible.Desi has been in a total funk shooting wise, can't buy a three point shot and Marvin has mostly reverted to taking off balance long range shots instead of operating in the paint and moving outside selectively'
Marvin's play improved in the second half as did Desi but the rest of the squad which picked up the slack in the first half fell off a cliff scoring wise. I too noticed that Patterson did a nice defensive job when assigned to Hearst and did make one open three so i have to give a shout out to him since i'm usually one of his biggest detractors.Still he's a limited and flawed player overall but can contribute decent defense and an occasional outside shot when set and open.
Desi scored some points in the second half almost all inside 15 ft. jumpers and Marvin picked it up also especially off the defensive backboard but the difference in this game was the incredible differential off the boards and continuous offense rebounds leading to second,third and fourth shots almost every time down after halftime.
Q played a nice first half against Drame but both he and Elias were outclassed underneath. Also as OT correctly pointed out we can't hit the side of a barn at the FT line but look at the FT differential.It wasn't the refs it was our complete lack of and inside game attacking the basket after halftime that led to us settling for long range jumpers while Quinny attacked inside and when denied threw it out to Hearst for a three.
On another note Quinny leads the nation in rebounding and is near the top in free throws. Both a sign of nice fundamental coaching. Their head man was with Calhoun for many years at UCONN who always had his teams among the leaders in these categories.I thought the zebras exacerbated the rebounding edge as it seemed Quinnys players are coached to push the player blocking out almost under the basket allowing them to get the rebound over them. This happened numerous times and was also pointed out by Radecke on the broadcast. The one part of any Peacock broadcast i must give a shout out to is Radecke is not a homer and one of the best color guys of any of the league broadcasts. Most of the others are complete homers.
As to the coaching staff as i pointed out here before on a number of occasions at the end of the day you are what your record says you are to quote Bill Parcels. I too like and respect JD but at some point the message gets stale and a new voice is needed. Let's hope we can turn this around as we still have 11 league games left but the clock is now ticking.If we don't get out of this funk which started with the first Manhattan game we're in for a long season and another sub .500 one. Still time to right the ship but it's getting late.
As Loyal pointed out quoting Michael Ray Richardson "the ship be sinking".
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Post by oldtimer1 on Jan 22, 2015 20:03:01 GMT -5
spcfan...as usual a fair, balanced and accurate post. Even your potential call for a possible new coach down the road is reasonable, although i hope JD remains. Your take on the game is straight on, especially on rebounding and fouls. Except for the one charging call on Tyler which if went the right way would have extended our lead in the first half.
As you know I'm am reluctant to be too specific but Desi has not been playing even cose to an ALL-MAAC player. Invisible in the 1st half and most of his points came at games end. We do have some decent players who are due to play better. We are not totally outclassed and our "talent" has the potential to beat anyone on any given night but we are no way superior in talent than the teams we recently faced. Also think that we are a little snake bit. And there is no doubt that our foul shooting has cost us several games. Let's hope Cindy roots us on to victory at Siena.
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