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Feb 8, 2013 10:48:48 GMT -5
Post by loyal on Feb 8, 2013 10:48:48 GMT -5
Precisely correct.....once scouted well, Blaise and to a lesser extent Yvon and even Desi have been far less effective than earlier in the season. Opponents effectively neutralizing Ffrench (I won't say how) have taken away many open looks and layups his teammates were able to convert earlier in the season. Also, Blaise shooting percentage has reverted to the mean since the first ten games, IMO. Not his fault, just a rather limited player once scouted. Our big guys next year should be pretty good rebounding and defending, but I do not think any of them possess the profile of a scorer. Dominique is a Ryan Bacon type, Welton is not a HS scorer and is a frosh, the MD kid is a frosh and Desport.....the stats this season speak for themselves. We need our JC recruit who isn't shooting well to shoot well next season and need an additional outside shooter to complement Desi. As of now, it does not appear we can go "inside out" next season, as put backs are likely to be our main offensive weapon from the "4" and "5" spot.
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Feb 8, 2013 11:06:39 GMT -5
Post by loyal on Feb 8, 2013 11:06:39 GMT -5
Another thing to watch regarding our front line players..... In the past, front liners like Todd Sowell, Anthony Roberts, Daren Rowe, Luis Arosa, Devin Thompson, etc. all took definitive steps forward as their careers progressed. They were much, much better as seniors than they were as sophs or juniors. During the past seven years, we've had two decent inside players, Conley and Bacon. Neither was much better as a senior than they were as a sophomore, IMO. One could argue both actually regressed a bit, at least from the promise they showed early in their careers. Whether Bacon/Conley lack of development is due primarily to limited skills or ineffective coaching is impossible to say..........but what is clear is to be successful, the young guys SPU can recruit up front have to improve leaps and bounds as their careers mature......moreso than during the past seven seasons.
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Feb 8, 2013 12:05:14 GMT -5
Post by oldtimer1 on Feb 8, 2013 12:05:14 GMT -5
Loyal, thought that you were "giving up" on analysis??? (just kidding). But I have to enlighten you on Blaise again..."limited player"? Blaise is averaging 8.2 pts. per game, just as I hoped for and predicted at the beginning of the season. His assist to turnover ratio is 116/64, pretty darn good considering that our players have obvious trouble converting. He leads the team in steals, averages 4.2 rebounds per game (same as Darius) and if not our best defensive player then 2nd best to Yvon. Limited??? The only thing I see Blaise limited in is his foul shooting which is horrible.
At 6'2" I really hope we find a guard next year who can bring to the table what Blaise does
Bottom line is that I'm a fan and root for all our players But based on his play this year (recheck the statistics above) Blaise is having one of the solid years of anyone on the team. I'd love to have, next year, a point guard over 6', who defends, rebounds, doesn't turn the ball over very much and still averages 8.2 pts. per game. Hope someoneone will come through but I think we will miss what Blaise can contribute.
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Feb 8, 2013 16:56:18 GMT -5
Post by spcfan on Feb 8, 2013 16:56:18 GMT -5
That was one of the worst offensive performances i have ever seen by any basketball team anywhere. The lack of any offensive flow or continuity was abundantly evident.
Two things i'll leave you with as discussed on Fairfield's radio broadcast by Joey De Santis. His comment on Blaise was you cant have a point guard who shoots under 50 percent from the free throw line. His other comment early on when the score was 9-8 Fairfield 10 minutes in was there's no way St Peters can win this game with the offense they play against a good defensive team like Fairfield. DeSantis played at Fairfield and coached at Quinnipiac. Like him or not his comments about us during the broadcast didn't show he thought much of our staff let alone our players.
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Feb 8, 2013 17:41:26 GMT -5
Post by cindycrawford on Feb 8, 2013 17:41:26 GMT -5
I couldn't agree more about the lack of flow and continuity in this game. It was painful to watch. I don't understand how ANY Div.I player can shoot under 50% from the line. DeSantis and his Fairfield friends however still can't stomach the fact that we beat them on their home floor for the championship they believed was theirs. That also is true of the people on North Avenue.
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Feb 8, 2013 18:30:01 GMT -5
Post by oldtimer1 on Feb 8, 2013 18:30:01 GMT -5
Wonder what DeSantis thought of our staff after we totally outplayed them in the MAAC Championship? Much as Cindy posted the Fairfield and Iona guys like to over hype their team and knock their opponents. Like to ask him his evaluation of Fairfield's performance this year (and last) given their upper class talent...Needham, Nickerson, Wade etc. They have consistently underperformed.
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Stags
Feb 8, 2013 19:07:59 GMT -5
Post by loyal on Feb 8, 2013 19:07:59 GMT -5
Yes, we beat the Stags and Gaels after going 0-4 against them in the regular season.
Yes, Iona and Stag fans overhype their teams.
"Shooting the messenger" is fine, but:
I just would like to point out those two facts are independent of: Our offense is absolutely abysmal, the defense is no longer intense and it is my opinion, for the 4th time in 7 years, our guys have thrown in the towel.
At any other D 1 school, JD would already be on his way out the door or coaching for his job next season. Period.
I can only hope SPU requires that level of accountability......and JD rises to the occasion and earns the right to be kept on.
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Feb 8, 2013 22:13:12 GMT -5
Post by JohnGalt on Feb 8, 2013 22:13:12 GMT -5
Loyal, I'll try to excuse as the words of a frustrated, disgruntled fan. To say that the guys have thrown in the towel for the 4th time in seven years is pure lunacy. Who do you see out there that has quit? Now you're ready to join our board protagonist in suggesting that JD should be shown the door. Do you ever reflect and examine what you say earler? Two years ago you we're proclaiming John as the best coach in the MAAC. Tell me, how does he go from so good to so bad in two years? Have you ever considered that our talent level may not be equal to some of our opponents?
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Feb 8, 2013 23:20:59 GMT -5
Post by loyal on Feb 8, 2013 23:20:59 GMT -5
Who recruits our talent? Anyway, I am frustrated and disgruntled. You are correct. Our "offense" is an embarrassment. Defensive intensity has dropped off significantly. Examples? Marist away, Jaspers home, Stags away, rider home, Purps home. Are you content with a total absence of accountability? I suspect not. We both wish for the best, but I think it's a legitimate question to ponder.....can the current staff get us there? .300 win percentage says maybe not. We have to hope Hawkins, Welton and Wyche are special. Past five years recruiting, including the year after the Title, were piss poor. Who can argue that? I hope Wyche is the next Jasper Walker, Dominique is the next Ryan Bacon (with a short jumper) and Welton. Is the next Anosike. We better hope that is the case.
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Feb 9, 2013 0:30:15 GMT -5
Post by oldtimer1 on Feb 9, 2013 0:30:15 GMT -5
loyal...I consider you one of our best fans (do we have that many?) and I feel it difficult to counter you. Yet you often state things as true that are absolutely not. Early in your post on the Fairfield game you declarded that our players "have mailed it in". Quite a knock on our guys! Cindy, who was at the game and who you declared our "greatest fan", was gentle with you saying that he didn't see that at all. Who am I to believe, Cindy, on site, or you?
Now you unequivocally state that in our Marist away game, Jaspers home, Stags away, Purps home Rider home that our defensive intensity "dropped off significantly". How do you know that? Were you there? I was for all the home games (and Manhattan away) and I didn't see that at all. So how can you state that as if you were there?
Certainly, defensive performance for any college team is not there every game but ours has remained pretty good. Did the TV cameras after the Marist game show our guys jumping up and down and Desi coming over to our fans side of the court waving his arms, very animated and thanking our fans? Did that intensity appear out of thin air and only for that game?
You criticize our coach, and he is definitely fair game given the record You chastised him for the Ferguson incident but, not being at the games, you never mention JD on the sidelines urging the players on often yelling "let's go white" or "let's go defense". For every time JD singles out a player he is ten times supportive of the team and individual players.
So no, I don't see our guys "mailing it in". What I have seen more often than not is intense defense often, in some of those losses, taking a team down to the last few seconds on the clock with effort. Are there missed assignments, overplaying a defender, drawing foul calls (how did Manhattan shoot over 30 plus foul shots if we weren't playing intensively??) or taking charges.
loyal, I think you mistake lack of results for lack of intensity. Let me assure you, as Cindy has, the intensity is amazingly there (who wouldn't be down after this season) although the execution may not be. So I have to tell you that your observation above is inaccurate.
As for your "legitimate question to ponder". It's already been pondered, at least by myself and several others. Hate to say "READ MY LIPS" but I've posted on several occassions that if JD's record remains as is, his contract should not be renewed and deservingly so. But you, somehow, need to feel the need to state this in almost every other post you make. Why not just root the guy and team on and let the future take care of itself.
Finally, you talk about our recruiting as being "piss poor". Yet, I recall that every year, like this one, you are among the first to feel good about our recruiting class only to bad mouth them later. Now you, or your friend, like Dominique. You feel good about Wyche, Welton and now Hawkins ( by your analysis of his video). And what about Desi? Feel bad about him? Bottom line is that you are always positive until you are not.
Loyal, I hope you take this as friendly criticism from one Peacock fan to another. I enjoy your posts and their intensity but have to call you out on some items. No problem with your CURRENT take on our coach but I do take issue with your "mailing it in" and "lack of intensity" comments.
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Feb 9, 2013 0:49:41 GMT -5
Post by JohnGalt on Feb 9, 2013 0:49:41 GMT -5
The staff does not have difficulty in identifying talent. Most of those we pursue do not fit the ideal but rather reflect a strategy which targets those where a realistic chance of gaining a commitment exists. As is common, once a bigger school enters the picture, schools such as ours generally drop to their secondary or tertiary targets. Our task may then fall to selecting the best available player rather than position, accepting one that will have certain liabilities/limitations, or maybe taking a shot at the kid who is felt has yet to develop. Wyche fits the latter and appears a good choice, Sellers maybe not so. Welton, I'm guessing, fits the limitations category.
Nice to dream, but the reality can sometimes be unsettling.
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Feb 9, 2013 9:28:08 GMT -5
Post by spcfan on Feb 9, 2013 9:28:08 GMT -5
An old high school coach once told me Defense is hard work and motivation. Offense on the other hand involves concept,movement, development and ability and is much harder to coach and develop in a player and execute.
One constant throughout the Dunne years is our lack of movement seeming non development of players and teams that have been offensively challenged .
I know many here don't have much good to say about our former head man Leckie but to me there is no doubt that the offense run was far better than the current regime. I know we had Clark which can't be denied but the ball movement,cuts and screens as well as the scoring on the break was much different than what we see now.
We seem to lack any movement mostly standing in position statuesque,constantly insist on working inside out when no inside game exists since an entry pass usually results in a double team and turnover since the ball rarely moves cleanly back to the perimeter or out to the corner once delivered into the post and for a team that prides itself on defense it amazes me how little we value possessions.
The amount of terrible turnovers we see before we even get into an offensive flow or forced shots after dribble penetration giving up the basketball amazes for a team that wants to play low scoring games and is defense first oriented.
I truly hope we can pull off one more victory this year for the sake of everyone, coach,staff,players and fans. It seems lately all of us here have taken to arguing more among ourselves over why the collapse this year has occurred after so much hope and tough hard play in the first half of the season.
We've all been arguing back and forth as what the cause of the slide has been since no one among the hard core here truly expected it after a 6-6 start with some wins over a few pretty good teams even some nice road wins .Lets face it no one expected a collapse in the second half .No one expected a last place finish in the MAAC and yet another pig seeding in the tournament again.
One point Loyal brings out is hard for anyone here even John's biggest supporters to argue. At SPU there is no accountability for performance, just look at the women' coaching situation for proof in that regard .As i stated in a much earlier post even Jim Loughran bought out a year of Roger Blind's contract. I doubt he was making less than our current women's coach this year.
Let's hope John turns the ship around next year with a new cast. He has three years left on his contract so plenty of time remains for the newbies to be developed and coached into something respectable if the ability of the staff to evaluate ,get and coach the talent is as good as some here have stated. Everyone who wants to be fair knows that facilities and the product we sell makes it tough but there are worse situations that exist in that regard where i must agree with Loyal. 30 percent in 7 years can't be defended no matter how you slice it or how much we want John to succeed.
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Feb 9, 2013 11:03:35 GMT -5
Post by oldtimer1 on Feb 9, 2013 11:03:35 GMT -5
spcfan...agree with the bulk of your post with one exception and one observation made previously.
No one, no one that I've seen post here has said that a coach, any coach has no responsibility for his/her record. There is a difference between supporting and rooting for a coach and accepting the fact that a poor record speaks for itself.
It is also not excuse making to point out the increasing difficulties of recruiting at SP by those (not you) who have no idea what recruiting entails. In that vein, some may not like johngalts post on the topic but it is spot on. Does it always have to be that way...possibly not but the solution, I doubt, begins with the coach. Think we've debunked the idea that this staff can't identify talent. A stupid assertion in the first place. The revolving door of top level talent ( Victor Adams as but one example) that visits, is offered but chooses to go elsewhere is prime proof. Yes, perhaps a different coach and staff can turn the tide but the significant headwinds will still be there for anyone.
Just look at the performance of our other teams, doesn't that tell you something about recruiting to SP? In now in my 5th year as coach. I can't tell you how many coaches have come and gone...not successful. Many were hard workers with coaching skills but couldn't recruit the players needed to CONSISTENTLY succeed. Yes track and myself have encountered success but as I've pointed out the minor sports have a significant advantage that basketball doesn't have i.e. we can alter our scholarship amounts to attract players while all bb players are on full ride. I can tell you that if I didn't have that advantage several of my players would be performing elsewhere right now and I would be mid-pack or worse in my conference.
And it's not the AD. Couldn't have more support from Bill Stein, Pat Elliott and now Joe Quinlan. Good guys who want to win but with very limited resources. Would it surprise you to know that my budget has been cut again this year and that I have had to raise (fortunately) a significant amount of money from outside sources. I'll say no more on that topic but everything always looks so easy from the outside. The turnover of coaches since I've been here, most their own, is amazing.
And when we talk about other schools that there are worse situations than ours, I seriously doubt it. And it's not just the campus and facilities. Up until a year or so ago we offered no majors/minors in physical education or sports management (Pat Elliott's idea). What a competitive disadvantage that was! Not sure how those programs have progressed but I'm pretty certain lack of their offerings is just but another selling point we never had.
Now to another point that drives me crazy...the talk about development of players. As a coach, I know that you don't take in an average player and make him a star. Does it happen? Once in a blue moon. Development takes place well before one puts on a college uniform. Can marginal imorovements be made and can a player improve his skills each year. Definitely! But miraculous jumps are few and far between. Regression? another misued term. Is Needham the player he was two years ago? Was OD better this year or last and what about all those Cansius player three years ago that never played up to their talent level? One would have to regard Iona as underperforming the last several years considering the "talent" they have been bringing in. On our end, for all this talk about a coach regressing players, pointing to Conley as a prime example I would cite Belin, Steve Samuels, Yvon, perhaps Tucker and even Blaise (this year vs last year) as players who improved each year...BUT they were never top tier players to begin with. Bottom line, it's rarely development but usually the talent level of the players brought in. The old saying, "a coach is only as good as his players".
Now before jajk decides to post again, misintrepretating what I said above. Nothing excuses the record we have now. The bottom line responsibility rests with the coach and staff. Every coach understands this. The good coaches work through the headwinds and if they are not successful they are ultimately replaced.
Finally, all this talk about buying out contracts is from those that have no clue to the situation at SP. I know that you, spcfan, are aware so this is not directed at you. At another University, yes contracts (at least one) would have been bought out. Not here, and accountability has nothing to do with it..it's money. Without going too far, SP has an Athletic Department Staff smaller than most high schools and budgets have been cut each and every year. Again, I will say no more as I am an employee and supporter of all our Programs(by choice). Also, I do not entirely know the other side of the equation...enrollment, finances etc, so I hesitate to point too many fingers. All I can say is that failure to by out a contract should not be an indication of failure of accountability. Sad but true.
I will only post on this subject again if I read that anyone is defending a 30% win record. NO ONE IS and I guarantee you that JD is more disapointed and concerned than anyone of our posters. That's the type of guy he is and why I root for his success.
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Feb 9, 2013 12:08:26 GMT -5
Post by JohnGalt on Feb 9, 2013 12:08:26 GMT -5
Well said O.T. I think each of our detractors should be sentenced to serving a year coaching one of our teams. One need only look at the budgets, lack of support staff, to see why this revolving door exists. Hell, we even have trouble funding/finding an SID. The school is broke and unlike our govt., can not simply print ourselves out of this financial abyss.
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Feb 9, 2013 18:37:51 GMT -5
Post by spcfan on Feb 9, 2013 18:37:51 GMT -5
You and i agree O.T. 99 percent of the time. I know as you do how bad the coaching turnover has been at SPC and how limited the success has been.
Seems like whenever we have a good program in a sport the coach asks for more money is refused leaves and we start over again.
Look at what has happened on at least 2 occasions in soccer,losing a coach who brought us into the ncaa tournament,women's softball where a great coach who took us to the NCAA and almost beat Arizona State dies is replaced by a decent assistant who carried on the sucess then leaves and we quickly sank again.Mens baseball where whenever we seem to be finally getting competitive the coach leaves and we're back to square one.
Many of these people weren't asking for the moon,most of them are expected to compete part time against some programs with a full time coach and the lack of support staff is well known to all of us who have to wait at the booth outside to buy a ticket since we had no season ticket packages this year due to no ticket manager.
History in all the sports here has shown that the right coach has overcome the adversity of the situation which is real and undeniable. John Dunne has won here and i expect and hope he can turn it around again. As you state if he doesn't at the end of his contract i expect he won't be retained.
In the meantime i like you i root for the young men who wear the blue and white and hope for some wins.Like i said before we're all frustrated since the start to this season held out so much promise but i agree with Cindy, i'll be there rooting hard for them tomorrow..
One last point re:development of players. Much of that depends on the work ethic of the young man. Look at the difference in Yvon Raymond who now has at least the threat of an outside shot and can make a free throw compared to where he was previously. Many of us here will remember Randy Holmes who came to SPC as a slasher type 2 guard put himself in the gym for 500 shots a day and became quite possibly the best 2 guard in the history of the college being one of the leaders on an NCAA team.It's a combination in the end of coaching,motivation of the player and support.
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