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Post by njchampion on Jan 10, 2013 19:44:06 GMT -5
OD first of all no one is criticizing JD have we ever evaluated why Prescott sub-par performance is at that level maybe it has to do with the fact that the kids attitude from last year got him in the dog house then and now with the addition of Desi has somewhat kept him there. If you look back once he was taken out of the starting line up his attitude and game changed it was almost as if he loss some passion. JD just as I would and you to being a coach would assume that a kid would bust their behinds to get back what was their. Didnt see it and Im sure he knew it, there comes the bench watch for him. What happen at st joes has nothing to do with this remember we recruited him him I think his still of play may not have been a fit but there are ways around that to get a kid to fit in. Actually I was not referring solely to Blaise performance from last year and I dont refer to it as playing scared we call it bench watching.His sophmore year he had a rough start on their trip over seas and the ball was put back in Nicks hands, Blaise may have started 1 or 2 more games but his game drastically changed I think that is when his concerns surfaced. As far as Yvon I felt he deserved to be in the starting line up last year. Who would you play in place of him or Blaise in the starting line up. Believe me their games and confidence have been elevated And this is with facts
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Post by oldtimer1 on Jan 10, 2013 21:23:55 GMT -5
njcchampion...disagree slightly in a friendly way. Guess that's what makes a conversation. Is Chris Prescott's "problem" (don't like that word either) because of attitude or is it just that he's not the dominent player he was in high school. That's why his performance at St. Joe's is relevant. Came in highly touted and basically did little. Same here.
By the way, Chris is a hard worker in those practices I've observed and I think, has a positive attitude. Does a lot of things well but doesn't have the overall skill set of a key starter. Nice player IMO but that's it.
As for Blaise, as a coach, you know that when some players get an opportunity, they take advantage of it. Agree also that gaining confidence doesn't hurt either. But let's set the record straight, and I think you agree, Blaise Ffrench didn't magically have someone else jump into his body this year. Those who saw him on a day to day basis knew he had the ability. Just had to show those under game conditions.
PS I'd give Chazz more time than CP. Freshman vs Senior and just as good, if not better.
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Post by cindycrawford on Jan 10, 2013 21:59:57 GMT -5
I'm with you on this one,OT. I believe you nailed it.
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Post by peacockblue on Jan 10, 2013 23:52:38 GMT -5
No need to bring up a debate from five years ago, but to provide a different perspective....
Lampley did go on to have a decent career at EMU. I agree he was a selfish player and Leon did bring us a MAAC title, but Lampley was dismissed his sophomore year so who knows how the situation would've played out had he remained.
As for the other instances you point out- Prescott was a chance we needed to take IMO and it didn't work out- same can be said for Jackson. Both high profile high school players that haven't performed at the next level for whatever reason. However, I find it hard to give JD credit for benching "our number 2 scorer last year." Prescott's flaws were evident (attitude among them) last year and the only reason he was able to average double figures was because of the amount of shots he took for a team with a complete lack of scorers. We all expected his playing time to go down, especially with the addition of Washington. I don't think any of us expected him to start going into the year but I think most of us would agree that the skills we expected to get out of Prescott are ones that this team desperately needs right now. So does JD get credit for benching him or get blame for recruiting a player that was expected to be a top scorer and getting nothing out of him?
As for making Yvon our starting 3, what were his other choices? Chazz is a freshmen, Prescott, as already mentioned, has not been what we expected, and Burke has been slowed by an injury and has been inconsistent. So in order to give JD credit for this decision, I'm curious what his other options for a starter were at the 3? I still think Yvon would be a great 6th man on a very good team, but unfortunately our lack of options have put him into the role of starter.
As for Blaise, we went into last year not expecting much and had Hall has the only other PG option and starter going into the year. No knock on Hall, but he's not a starting-caliber player. This year, Blaise was the only option to play the point, so I'm not sure how much credit I give JD in this decision either, since he had no other choice. One could argue that JD chose to hold off recruting a PG until next year with Ffrench already in place, but it could be also argued that we just didn't land a PG this year other than Fields.
Again, I would agree that picking players is not necessarily a shortcoming of JD. However, I would argue that getting enough talented players onto the roster where tough decisions become necessary has been a shortcoming for quite some time.
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Post by eport on Jan 10, 2013 23:53:13 GMT -5
Have the feeling we'll bring our "A Game" tomorrow night against Niagara. We will be well rested and Niagara will coming off a long trip, plus we are due for a good game. Being 2-3 vesus 1-4 sounds a lot better. Hope we are able to get Conley more touches down low and he makes his free throws. Also, hope we facilitate our transition game by pressing and trapping as much as possible.
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Post by eport on Jan 11, 2013 0:09:25 GMT -5
Is Ferguson in uniform or street clothes....hurt...dog house? Really thought he would be in the rotation. All though a disappointment, he had some decent games last year early in the season. We certainly could use his height. Granted he played small regarding rebounding, but he was able to block some shots last year.
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Post by njchampion on Jan 11, 2013 0:47:29 GMT -5
OT I actually agree with you on Blaise he came with talent and thats my point the talent was always there I saw him play AAU and liked his game back then. However my point as stated was that against Old Dominion he started off slow and just had a bad game and was eventually benched. 1 game and done it would make any player a little leary once he gets back on the court and for his first 2 years here you did not get what your getting this year (only glempses) No more bench watching. I still feel that Prescott could be a productive player for this team, he needs to accept the role of coming off the bench acquire a positive attitude and feel that he is a significant part of the team. Im not saying babysit the guys but as a coach there may be an instances you may have to take a few steps further
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Post by oldtimer1 on Jan 11, 2013 1:44:56 GMT -5
peacockblue...in the spirit of friendly debate let me disagree with some of your points.
#1 "getting enough talented players on the roster" . You have not really harped on this but others have. In fact JD has been accused in some posts of not being able to identify talent...pure bs. Atleast you recognize that the problem is getting talent to come here. Some refuse to accept that many "talented" players just do not want to come here. Case in point was the potential impact stud from Florida via JC . Made an official visit, played pickup ball, was then sent an NLI. Bottom line, was pursued very aggressively. The prospect , like so many others, just did not want to come here. Some fans cannot accept that reality and blame the coach and Staff...stupid!
#2 Regarding Lampley. Many are aware of the unfortunate circumsances, which had nothing to do with basketball , which caused his dismissal. As a player, IMO, he was horrible. Selfish, turnover prone, poor shooter. Often took more shots (12-16 a game) than guys like Wesley. Had he stayed he would have seen only selected playing time. Nick didn't get the position by default. He was the much, much better player and the team leader. PS I know Lampley improved after he left here but Nick was just named Tournament MVP in the Eastern Pro League last Spring. Again better player.
#3 Agreed with everything you stated about Prescott up to the last few sentences. I ask how could JD NOT recruit Prescott, Jackson ? Probably had to roll the dice with each. In order to know the answer one would have to know JD's other options...doubt if there were any. No coach recruits all winners. It's often been stated that if recruiting yields only a 50% success ratio then the results are considered successful. Analyze any team you want and you'll find more busts than recruits who pan out. For every Prescott (and I don't consider him a bad get) there is a Desi. Ask yourself who was "available" AND wanted to come here if JD passed on Prescott? Probably got the best player we could.
As for the rest, it would take too long to go discuss. Your post implies that JD had few other options in choosing this years starting team.Think you should give the Coach more credit that that. I could name a lot of different senarios that JD had. For example, if JD didn't think that Blaise could play point he could have started Desi there. Many here scoffed at the idea of Desi playing point earlier in the year but guess who plays point, and plays it well when Blaise is out...Desi. And as I posted previously I don't think that it's a bad idea. As for Burke, I find him less inconsistent than you say. While not a scorer, wish he was, Chris does his thing game in and game out. I could have seen/experimented with Desi at point Yvon as #2 and Burke at #3 with Prescott and Chazz as backups or even Prescott starting (12 pts per game last year).
Finally,points #2 and #3 I could care less about. Just your opinion vs mine. But point #1 really burns me up. Again, not directed at you as you merely pointed out that we don't recruit enough "talented" players. No question about that! . But to anyone who says it's JD's fault has no clue to the reality of recruiting at SP. For several years now the Men's Basketball Program has worked their butts off attempting to bring in "talented" recruits. Most have little interest in playing here. Is it because JD has bad breath or that other silly argument...style of play? Anyone with half a brain should understand the CURRENT realities of recruiting here.
I've been fortunate in that I can alter the amount of my athletic scholarship I offer to get most players I want. I'm in a much better position than basketball but yet I still encounter players who do not want to come here under ANY circumstances. That's the reality basketball faces. Hope we catch lightning in a bottle with Dominique, Travis, Chazz, Desi, Burke et al next year. We are getting better players than in previous years but it's still very tough.
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Post by oldtimer1 on Jan 11, 2013 1:46:33 GMT -5
njchampion...agree with your entire post. Well stated
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Post by peacockblue on Jan 11, 2013 7:27:13 GMT -5
OT, I think we are in agreement for the most part. As for potential starting lineups, again I think it comes down to the talent JD has and the lack of depth of that talent. Going into the season, I think most agreed our best players were Conley, Washington (hopefully based on what was known of him), Blaise (coming off a solid finish to last year), and possibly Yvon (who has really stepped up another level this year). All four of those players play different positions so that is basically the starting lineup we were given. Playing Desi at the point limits the team because of the lack of scorers around him (similar to Ffrench last year) so I don't think this was ever a serious option.
The other returning options were Burke coming off an injury, Prescott who could've been given a chance to start at the 3 but lost favor at the end of last year and lost minutes on a team with no talent, Tucker a viable option at the 4, and Ferguson who we knew would not play.
Of the additions, Jackson was given the starting job from day one, which I think was the right call based on lack of options and his potential upside. Both Desport and Chazz have shown talent, but aren't starting-caliber players on a good team just yet.
So again, based on our talent, I don't personally see many other options than what we went with.
As for the debate on recruiting talent at SP, take a look at a thread called "Worst MAAC Coach of All-Time" on the MAAC Board. Interesting that our last three coaches appear among the 20 MAAC coaches with the worst winning percentage.
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Post by oldtimer1 on Jan 11, 2013 9:39:27 GMT -5
peacockblue...no problem as we usually agree on most things.
However, I must comment" your last paragraph. There is a saying in economics when comparing things "ceteribus paribus" meaning "everything else being equal" No doubt you've heard of it. Well, in the recruiting wars, plain and simple, everything else is not equal and St. Peter's is at a serious competitive disadvantage. This is true not only within the MAAC Conference but competiting against other schools for "talent". I'm sure you understand that.
The stats you cited, from the MAAC Board, basically back this up. Year in and year out SP coaches have difficulty winning because of lack of enough talent (we do get some talent). Has to be more than the staffs and coaches to explain that!
By the way, in the same posts by those idiots at the MAAC Board, many cite JD as the best or one of the best coaches in the MAAC. Several state that they wish he would coach at their school. Now while I don't put much faith in those guys opinions I think it's universally recognized by other MAAC Programs that SP is a very difficult place to recruit for. Not an excuse, reality.
Yet our staff keeps trying....Belin, Prescott, Desi, Patterson, Dominique, and others. Also need to understand the revolving door of prospects, many of whom were quite talented but choose not to come here. As one of the Marist posters cited and I'll paraphase....imagine what John Dunne could accomplish if he had the Marist campus and school to sell.
I'm a loyal SP graduate and obviously choose tp coach here. Don't like hearing or saying negative things about our school. However, the way to improve anything is to begin with reality and go from there. Let's hope that the athletic budget improves, that athletics at SP becomes more important than it seems to be, that our facilities improve, that our fan base grows at home games et.etc, etc. What I do like about most coaches here is that I observe little moaning or excuse making. All understand quite well the situation and (most) try to do their best. I respect that.
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Post by oldtimer1 on Jan 12, 2013 8:59:28 GMT -5
Eport... no one jumped into Chris Burke' s body and he was not on steroids. I was teasing loyal because while is great SP fan. But truth be told loyals ability to evaluate talent leaves much to be desired. Way back he was dead wrong on Nick Leon, then Blaise French and now Chris Burke.
Guess you can tell it bothers me....the kid IS a player. Also hate the misuse of the term INTANGIBLE. Rebounding, defense, ball handling against defensive pressure and no being turnover prone ARE NOT intangibles...they are REAL skills important to a basketball team.
Chris Burke has all of the above and they are not intangibles. True he is or has been a reluctant shooter and scorer and that is frustrating. But those who knocked his shooting just have no clue. While Chris is not shooter a la Desi he can shoot the ball. Told everyone that from day one . he is not a great shooter but decent. Last year he was our 2nd best percentage shooter from the field. This year, Chris is shooting .458 from the field, Desi is shooting.391. Do we call Desi a poor shooter?
As spcfan pointed out Chris, for whatever reason, has been reluctant to pull the trigger. Last night his first three point attempt rattled out and loyal was all over him with that intangible stuff. Then he went 5/6 from the three. To his credit loyal congratulated Chris but getting on him when he just missed his first shot bothers me.
I don't know how good a player Chris Burke can be. He is not a shooter/scorer by nature. Doesn't really know his own potential. John Dunne does. Told me that Chris has the most upside of anyone on the team. Anyone who has watched Chris play understands that, Started at #3 tonight and responded. No doubt he'll have his bad or quiet nights and some fans will be all over him again. Of couse, they have no clue to what Chris, even on a quiet night brings to this team.
Regarding Pat Jackson, I was quite happy that he played well. My comment on dunks was just mention to caution those who do not attend games that Pat's points might be the type that do not indicate a trend. Right now he is a 14 pt.per game scorer but it's still nice to see some of his potential. Lilke you I'm hopeful.
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