Let's not allow Saints to upset us

[junctionkid]

We own this team .

Our lead in the all-time series is large and ever widening .

But since I know Saints' posters don't like to hear that fact and would rather talk about recent history . So let's do that . How about Peacocks five to one over the last six games .

Patsos is one of few MAAC coaches JD has absolutely owned .

Last team to win when the two played each other in MAAC tourney - the Peacocks naturally , and on the Saints' home court .

Last team to win the MAAC tourney of the two - naturally , our Peacocks .

But you don't do it on paper so let the Peacocks come out with their A game on Friday to start the drive for the top five . Actually despite recent troubles , we win this one and get back in the race for the top three  . A win would put us only half game behind Siena and we would have sweep over them .

Saints do have a few positives going into the tilt . It is at the TUC and we all know the strong tendency for the Siena to get the favorale ref whistle here . This is important since both teams have depth problems , particularly if Idowu is not available for us . Possible key to game is which team gets vital player or two in foul trouble early . Saints are indeed hurt by not having the outstanding Wright available but may not be a big deal since Trevis has largely made him a non factor against against us since they came into conference together . We are four and one with Marquis in their line-up and his assist to TO ratio against us has been terrible compared to what he does against most teams .

But they do have the outstanding Brett Bisping whose conference play has him right there with Justin and AJ for MAAC POY . He didn't have good game against us in first tilt this season but it sure looked like injury or illness may have had a lot to to do with that . We have to limit him a bit on the offensive end but , more importantly , keep him from dominating on the glass . He can get limited Siena offense a lot of second chances which they will need to compete with Peacocks . If we can reasonably limit him on the glass , Saints are vulnerable there . Ogenyemi has been putting up some big scoring numbers recently . But , as in the last  game, Q has outplayed him since they came into the conference together . I think JO has averaged something like 5 points and 3 rebounds over his career against Peacocks .

So we should get this one to start a new winning streak but we have to do it on the court . Let's come out of the gate strong this time and not let Saints think they have opportunity for upset . Go Peacocks !

[loyal]

Saints will be favored by at least 4/5 points, I suspect.

[loyal]

TUC whistle may give Q problems against a pretty good club. Saints have a few strong rebounders.

[oldtimer1]

Over at school today for a Golf Team meeting...observed practice and talked with some of the players and coaches.

1) Biggest news and this comes from the player ( not the Coach's ). Du thinks that he will be ready before seasons end. Will not be redshirted since according to the player he would not be eligible. Looks in great shape but didn't see him on the floor. Maybe he hasn't been cleared yet by the doctors/trainers...didn't ask.

2) The team is a little fatigued. I'll say no more except that when some were posting that we need more offense out of Chazz, junctionkid posted that, that would be a lot given what he does for us in terms of defense and rebounding. He's right! Chazz goes all out...has to be extremely tiring. Coach confirmed this.

3) Observed #1 again ( forgot his name ) and he is very, very good. Can shoot, pass, and run an offense. He'll get minutes at point relieving Antwon to play #2. Impressive

4) Hope we beat Siena...we are equally talented but it'a a tough place to win.


PS For junctionkid, Sam practiced well so I don't think that there is any physical problem.

[youngalum]

Feb 4, 2016 14:56:58 GMT -5 loyal said:

Saints will be favored by at least 4/5 points, I suspect.

8.5

[loyal]

Wow.

I am surprised we are that large of an underdog.

Well, Saints are home and it's tough to beat a team of equal (or slightly better) ability twice in one season....plus we are in a tailspin.

Let's hope we right the ship soon. Tomorrow night represents a tall order.

[junctionkid]

Anybody know if we traveled up tonight . Surprisingly bad weather now for early tomorrow . If we do have to travel in it , hope all stay safe .

Incicidentally , watching Quinny who we play next , about to get fourth straight win tonite . It is against a Marist team without Lamb and looking dispirited but Quinny is definitely playing better . Robinson , a reserve for them who was 5-36 from the three line going into the game was five for five from there in seven minutes in first half . Their frosh , Bundu , is a bunch of rebounding energy and another of the very talented first year conference guys this season .

[oldtimer1]

Rooting hard for us to win Friday but I'm a little puzzled by the title of this thread. I assume junctionkid choose it with a little bit of tongue in cheek, especially given our current record against the Saints. Reality is, however, that we are a relatively big underdog playing in an arena that has the well earned reputation of home cooking. We are the underdog and I hope that we can pull off the upset. Let's not kid ourselves about that. We've gotten "jobbed" up there on several occassions.

I mentioned that we are a tired team with good players on the bench but thin. There was a reason that Boone played over 20 minutes against Iona and it wasn't just because he was playing well. Would love to see Du return. He's young and inexperienced but has more upside than anyone we currently have at the #4. Let's see what he can do to help us. Right now he remains a question mark regarding when he can resume play.

[loyal]

Wasted year for Du so far. Limited floor time due to God knows what, then injury. Surprised he's not being redshirted; strategic injury descriptions and classifications are "massaged" by programs more often than not.

When one considers the very minimal contribution likely this year vs. what Du can give us as a fifth year senior......let's just say the situation begs for redshirt status.

See, that was easy! :-)

[peacockpride]

I have to agree with loyal and disagree with Oldtimer in that I would hate to see Du return at this point and it makes very little sense for him to do so. Loyal is correct that having missed this much time already, I find it hard to believe that his injury, whatever it is, can not be defined as season ending with three weeks left in the season.

There is virtually no upside to him returning. A freshmen coming back after missing three months of game time and who was very "raw" in his appearances early on will have little to no impact. Yes he has more upside than anyone else at the 4, but I can't see him outperforming any of them in the next month to the point where him coming back makes any sense. If the team is tired, Du alone will not make any difference. (The notion of the team being tired is a whole other discussion for a different thread)We have the numbers up front, just not the talent.

The flip side of having an option for a 5th year (at SP or elsewhere) is clearly the best option for both sides at this point. Loyal, to disagree with your wording a bit, Du's year up to this point has been disappointing/frustrating for him and the fans who looked forward to watching him. It only becomes wasted if he plays now and they trade playing 10 minutes in 10 games for an entire season.

[oldtimer1]

Loyal...one of the things that amuses me both in reading this Board and others are comments made by posters regarding things that they are not privy to and then drawing crazy conclusions. That comment was not directed solely at you as I have great respect both for you and your postings. I am privy to an awful lot of observation and inside knowledge and so does Cindy and perhaps others. However, even with that advantage my information is miniscule in itself. I do not pump JD and others just so that I can be a big shot and post something on this Board. I post on this Board to have fun and sometimes give our loyal followers some information that I feel comfortable giving. How much information do I and most likely Cindy know?...probably infinitely more than our posters but infinitely less than someone on the Coaching staff would know. We have self imposed boundaries. Just trying to help, a little.

With regard to Du, thought that I was doing all our loyal fans a favor by giving the information as to his status. Unfortunately, I doing so we then go "0ff to the races" with idle speculation and commentary. First, with regard to the possible red shirt staus NONE OF US know the exact in's and out's as to what the real situation was. So much is involved in that decision including a players willingness to red shirt. Some do want to graduate, get a degree and move on. It's not always about the Basketball Program. Chazz chose to red shirt, others have not. It's not always the Coach's decision. Point is that all of us, myself included, were not and are not privy to whatever decision was made on DU.

Now with regard to you comment about "limited floor time due to God knows why". That's typical second guessing and uniformed speculation but I guess that's the natue of message boards. Thank God that JD and most other Coaches never read fans message boards. By nature these boards are filled with would be coach's who, even with incomplete information, pontificate on both coach and team. Sometimes I am guilty of the same. But let me answer, without having questioned JD, as to why Du saw limited playing time early on.

Coach's see much more of a player in practice than we ever will. Stat's are also kept on a player's performance. Well I've seen DU both in practices and game situations. IMO he is a potential outstanding talent but he is very raw and often played out of control. Things like trying to put the ball behind his back, driving out of control, taking poor shots etc. I marveled at his talent but from my point of view also had many negatives. So, I did not question his limited playing time. Same for SAM who saw little time in the beginning but is seeing more playing time as the Season goes on. Think JD has brought him along quite well.

We have a lot of posters who are basketball knowledgeable. I know that by reading their posts. However, all should be aware that they rarely have total complete information as to why something was done while something else was not done. I could go on but as for now I've chosen to post on this board and have to accept the reality of message boards. Perhaps, at some point, I will choose not to and then I will never be upset with uninformed speculation. IMO our board is one of the best but thank God our Coach's have no interest in reading the stuff we post.

Loyal, please understand that this post was not directed at you. Your post just gave me an opportunity to vent against message boards in general.

[oldtimer1]

peacockpride...just read your post and it is exactly the same type of post that I commented on above. First, please reread my original post. You have a tendency to put words in another's mouth. You did so on our discussion about my take on JD's tenure. Now you are doing it again.

What I posted on DU was that he was not going to be redshirted and the HE hoped that he would be ready to play by seasons end. That was the players opinion not mine! I said absoilutely NOTHING about my opinion on that. In fact, my only comment was that it would ultimately up to the trainers/doctors and, of course, JD. I gave no opinion but now we jump in with our uninformed 2 cents. NOTHING was also posted about JD's opinion on whether Du returns or not. So why "go off to the races" on that? Sort of sorry that I tried to help with some very limited information. So you and loyal are way off base. Again read my post! There is nothing to disagree with because I did not comment.

I'm also sorry that I posted that the team might be tired. Thought twice about posting that and now sorry that I did. We do not need another thread on that! Reading your posts it's obvious that you (and others) are basketball knowledgeable but sometimes it becomes a bit too much...overanalysis based on very incomplete information. I've chosen to post so that I'm quilty of much of the same but reading some of the stuff that is posted here makes me want to reconsider. Fun to comment but sometimes too many experts. We should all try to be a little bit humble realizing that we are always dealing with incomplete information.

[loyal]

No offense taken, OT. I merely expressed two points:

1. If at all possible, it is in the best interests of the SPU basketball program to redshirt Du. Whether we can, or whether he wants to or not, I have no idea. Just believe if there is ANY opportunity to redshirt Du, we should do it.

2. I understand my "God knows why" comment could be interpreted as second guessing, but in this case, it is not. In any public or private discussion about SPU basketball since October 1st, I stated my strong preference for giving our frosh PF's first crack at time backing up Hawkins. The reasons are too numerous to mention. Here we are; a problematic PF position this year and no experience gained by our PF frosh for next year. Even a broken clock is right twice a day. :-)

[peacockpride]

Oldtimer, as requested, I reread your post. You say "I would love to see DU return" to which I started my reply that I would hate for that to happen. Not putting words in your mouth, just responding to what you actually said. While I like many of the points you make and information you provide, you often post in a condescending tone as though you are the judge of a good knowledgable post vs. an uniformed post. You don't know what relationships other posters have with coaches, players, staff, etc so what determines what is good information and what is uniformed speculation? It seems that whenever you don't know you often take the stance of "no one knows" because how could anyone know or understand something that you don't.

You mention the players willingness to redshirt. In Du's case, which would be a medical hardship, not a redshirt, there is no willingness from the player needed. Either his injury can be defined as "season ending" or it cannot be. At this point in the year, the coaching staff and trainers could easily say "we're shutting you down for the year" and as loyal pointed out this is quite routine in order to save a year of eligibility. Chazz's situation was completely different in that he was not injured, he was asked not to play an entire year, which is a "redshirt." You try to make both out to be similar to make your point but in reality they are two very different situations.

Your point of some players wanting to graduate and move on really has little to do with anything because nothing is stopping them from doing so if they redshirt or not. They are still taking classes and can graduate in four years if they choose. If my memory serves correct, players such as Leon graduated early and choose to stay for grad schools while others like Orta, Gooding, and Tucker chose to move on with eligibility left. As I alluded to, sitting out the year would actually give a player more options because the could either graduate and move on, play at SP for a 5th year, or graduate and transfer with no limitations.

[oldtimer1]

Loyal, I know you personally and you are both a "good guy" and an avid St. Peter's fan. Just some additional points.

1) No one knows except the Coach and player what the exact situation was with Du. Was redshirt attempted, what was the player's wishes and what was JD's take on the subject? Neither you, I or anyone else knows. So why comment? It is what it is and let's just go from there.

2) Regarding JD's use of Du early on, again keep in mind that no matter what you or others think practice performance determines a lot. I too was anxious to see Du play. I observed his raw talent. I also observed that it was very raw. As far as Hawkins was concerned we didn't even know who would start Hawkins or Elias. So to say that Du would back up Hawkins that might never have been the plan. Elias is in a funk now but remember he contributed big time in a few games earlier this year. Again practice time is much more than game time and perhaps ( I don't know ) Du's performance needed seasoning. That's a Coach's decission quite capable of being second guessed. Same with Sam. JD has brought him along very slowly and I think it's working. Back to Du it was never a no brainer that he could step on the court and give us what Portley has...too raw! A Coach's use of players is one of the prime reasons that message boards exist...part of the job.

And , by the way, I had never spoken with Du previously until yesterday. More than what he said was his deamenor. Seemed very up beat and positive. I liked that.